The Evolution of Automotive Education: From YouTube to the Classroom With Oscar Gomez

Jeff And Oscar Gomez - Episode Six.wav
00:00 What is supposed to be completely out of the realm of do it yourself. Or there's a guy that's showing that, yep, I rebuilt one in my backyard. You know, I had a basic tool set. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to another exciting, thought provoking episode of the Jada Mechanic podcast. My name's Jeff and I'd like to thank you for joining me on this journey of reflection and insight into the toils and triumphs of a career in automotive repair. After more than 20 years of skin knuckles and tool debt, I want to share my perspectives and hear other people's thoughts about our industry. Support yourself a strong coffee or grab a cold Canadian beer and get ready for some great conversation. With me tonight is a really good friend of mine, Oscar Gomez. Oscar, say hello to the people. Hey, what's up everybody? Yeah. So how was your day, Oscar?

01:08 So far so good, Jeff. I'm actually kind of running a little bit late. I just finished up a quick little meeting here with launch, which I had no idea was literally five miles from from our company. So I'm excited to be here. And these guys were showing me some of the new EV tools and their ADAS equipment, which I thought was pretty awesome and actually even offered us to have like a field trip. So we're going to be taking a class with us next week and they're going to demo the whole ADAS unit and run them through some ADAS calibrations. So it's been a really productive morning and I'm excited to be here with you. So for the people that may be not familiar, Oscar, give us where you are and what you do. My biggest thing is I'm on a mission to better the automotive industry.

01:58 One technician at a time. And that starts with anybody who's willing to take the time to sit down and listen to me.

02:03 Sometimes I do say some dumb stuff, trying to be funny, but most of the time I'm sharing some good information and trying to help people understand what I'm doing. And I'm also trying to help people understand what I'm doing. So I'm trying to help people understand what I'm doing. I'm located in the southern part of California and Southern California here in the city of Rancho Cucamonga. We're only about 35 miles east of Los Angeles. However, knowing that this is California, that equates to about an hour and a half in traffic. So we're not too far from the L.A. Basin. And I've actually been training since pre-K. We're not too far from the L.A. Basin. And I've actually been training since professionally since 2011 when I got licensed as an instructor here in the state of California. And it was more of just one of those things that I was doing as a side hustle. You could not want to call it a side hustle, but more of a, you know, a little side gig that I was doing because I was still working at the time as an active technician. When I had that one moment that just changed my whole trajectory is when that's when I developed my why and my mission. After that, man, it's been an amazing ride.

03:22 It's an inspiring story, honestly, because I mean, like you and I don't know each other real super well. I was you didn't make AST. You got kind of right. You got sidetracked with the hurricane. And I was I was you're one of the guys that I was looking forward to meeting you because I'd only got to know you shortly before that. Yeah. Just seeing your videos online and whatnot. And I'm like, oh, OK. So, you know, because I'm a nerd like that. Right. Anybody that's got any kind of training online, YouTube or whatever, and it's free. I'll I'll I'll look it up and give it a follow. And absolutely. I liked your your process right away, because it's I mean, you know, we have some really smart guys that come on the show and I'm not one of them. It makes two of us. I can navigate the stuff. I know what people are doing, but it's not like I'm not at that level. Right. So, I mean, anything that comes across where it's like very well executed, the presentation of it, I really I really get off on that. I enjoy it. So I appreciate that company.

04:28 The whole scoop on who we are. When I was working as an automotive technician and before I even decided to open a school, my wife and I had had a conversation and she mentioned, you know, you're you're teaching now. What about opening a school? And, you know, within about a week or so, her and I came up with the name called Master Automotive Training. And we said that the reason why we wanted to use that is because we can have an acronym of M.A.T. Yeah. This was roughly I want to say about 2010. And then throughout the process, after getting licensed as an instructor, the school that I was teaching at actually had to close down. And when that happened, you know, I come home, tell my wife, well, you know, that's it. And she says, well, why don't you open a school? I still remember that day because I laughed pretty pretty heavily thinking that, you know, how am I going to go from being a technician to now owning a school? And I started kind of do my homework after a couple of failed attempts. Eighteen months later, I was finally able to open as a training facility in the state of California. I oh I rented out the back of a smock check station or an emission station here in California. And I was paying one hundred thousand bucks to operate there. And so being in California, it's not bad. And that's that's where it all got started. January, January of 2014 is when we ran our first class. I was jaw dropped that I was able to do my first class with I believe 12 to 15 students was my first run. And because I was doing it at that time, I was doing it more kind of like a little side gig. And finally, when I had that one student who took the knowledge that I was able to give to him and passes ASEL one is what really triggered me to start wanting to do something better. And that's when really we started focusing on on going after the technical side, helping these guys with the technical aspect of training. And then started doing the YouTube process, doing some YouTube videos here and there. And that really took off. And that's really what has helped master automotive training become a good name here in Southern California for automotive training.

06:52 That's awesome. Oscar. So tell me how you got your start. Right. So before the teaching gig, you were you were working tech. Right. You're in you're in the shop. Just like all of us. You're doing smog check. You're doing die egg. You're doing, you know, anything and everything, I think. Right. Tell me like give me what made you want to do that. Were you a gear head as a kid? Did you do you have family that did it? Like that's what always fascinates me is how some this industry draws so many people. You know, there's lots of second generation mechanics in there, but then there's lots of people that have never touched the car other than to drive the car. And they just go into what's give us. Tell us what young Oscar was like.

07:33 So the funny part, man, is young Oscar wanted nothing to do with cars. My parents actually opened up a carburetor shop back in 1991 and here in Rialto, California. So we were actually brought up within the shop more of a forceful type deal, not that we really wanted to. It was you had to be at the shop. Yeah. So, you know, growing up through that process, I didn't really want to do that because it was forced on me. And then, you know, my parents were lucky enough, they were able to expand to a second location. And I moved to that second location with their lead tech from that first shop. And I got that's where I really started to actually I transitioned from not liking it to wanting to learn more. I was doing more stuff. You know, I was learning how to do brakes, how to do tune ups, not just carburetor overhauls and adjustments. It was more drivability diagnostics. Then we added the smog check to the shop. And during that process, I talked about Benjamin Franco was one of my first mentors where he started teaching me more of the maintenance side. Like, hey, let me help show you how to use a lift. We would lift the car up. All right. Let me we're going to do this oil change and car would come in. He's like, hey, check engine lights on. We're going to go through this process, this and that.

08:55 And that's where I started really liking it a lot more. Yes. So you kind of evolved past the technology of just a carburetor into EFI, right? Like, I mean, you. Yep. Yeah.

09:06 So, yeah. So I went from old school carburetion to, you know, CPI central port injection, the old spider TBI. I got to work on distributor type non distributor DIS. So I share this with everybody because this is this really I feel was attributing to my knowledge base because I was able to transition from mechanical to mechanical, electrical to full electronic ignition and fuel systems as well. So I was able to see that whole transition, which really a lot of that rolled over, but then just became a little bit more advanced.

09:45 So I attribute that a lot to what I've been able to learn throughout my career. It's a good way to get your fundamentals in. If you can see that that whole evolution from a set of points and to all the way up to what we're dealing with now. Right. Like it's right. I mean, it's still power and ground and current flow and all that jazz. But I mean, if it's if you can break it down into its most basic system that you can hold up in your hand and show it to somebody and go see what used to go from this to this. That's really active, right? That's so I I'm I'm old enough that, you know, I drove something with a distributor, right? And I, you know, we had well up until, you know, in the 90s, we still had a sixty five Malibu. So I was familiar. Yeah, I was familiar with points and carbs and stuff like that. So, I mean, it was it wasn't totally foreign to me, but it was that's what got me hooked was like, oh, I don't I don't want to work. My father was a collision auto body guy. And so I grew up around it and I hated just I hated sanding. I hated welding. I hated cleaning the shop. It was just, yeah, yeah, not everything fast. Right. That was and he warned me this is this is a tough it looks like it's a lot of fun, but it's it's a it's a slog. And he was right. But I mean, I'm still thankful every day that I grew up around it, right? Because it's it's I was it's definitely what I was put here to do for sure. For sure. Exactly.

11:11 You know, so and going through going through those processes, you know, a lot of times it is difficult, especially because they're our parents. You know, we would get different treatment than than everybody else. You know, and now I look at it and it's like, hey, well, I was I guess I could call it lucky that even though it was something I didn't like. And the little bit that I was taught throughout that time has really helped me out a lot. So to the listeners out there, if if somebody's telling you something and it's bugging you or you feel that they're attacking you, they're not. They're trying to help you. And if you listen to that individual, that's going to help you become a better person, which is going to just the snowball effect. Just keep rolling and compounding into something better, better, better, better.

11:52 So don't take it as words. Yeah. If you see potential in you, that's why they're pushing you. Right. It's not exactly it's not malice intent. It's because if they see that little little glimmer of hope or something or I hate to the natural aptitude thing is I think that's been overdone. But, you know, when we see a potential in a person, either it's a work ethic or just something clicks, you want to see that develop. Right. And I mean, it's so that's worth more than than money sometimes is to see that person like I talk about in episodes when I have a light bulb moment with some of the apprentices that I've had or text I've mentored or even not even mentored, just fellow techs that I can show them something. When you see that light go off, that that's the highlight of that week. Normally. Right. Is that doesn't matter what is kicking your tail. You feel like, OK, so I came in on the other side and, you know, like that job really ate my lunch. But what was cool was John learned this. Right. And I mean, that that makes it worthwhile.

12:49 So absolutely. And I guess it's addicting, doesn't Oscar. Oh, yeah, man. I get such a sometimes I'll get the chills, man. Just talking about it where you see that I call it the aha moments. Like you said, the light bulb moment. And it's when you see that students face just go like because what you were instilling in them finally clicked. And once it clicked, man, they're done solid. So I live for that now.

13:19 I love that. And that's why I love what I do as an educator. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Yeah. So so you've been doing this.

13:28 What do you say? 2014. So, yeah, that's when we opened master the school, M.A.T. Master Automotive Training in 2014. And then in 2019, we transitioned here to Rancho Cucamonga. And this has been our home base since 2019. We were just trying to build here in this area when Covid hit. And it was a little tough time. However, like you said earlier, it's it's seeing what's on the other side. Just like with electrical, we ran into a little bit of unwanted resistance. Slowed us down a little bit. But then once we cleared that resistance up, we got our current flow going exceptionally. So as as a school, we saw a lot of growth coming out of out of the shutdown. A lot is because of our hands on approach. And we make sure that anybody who comes in, yeah, anybody could read a book, anybody could watch a video. But you're going to do it here.

14:22 So that's one of the major differences that we do is we make sure that hands on the whole way. Yeah. Cool. So when you were talking about you, you were working in the shop, you had that mentor. What kind of shop was that? Was that like the family shop or is that or did you progress to to a different shop after that? Like, did give us kind of did you hear us talk about different shop environments and different? You know, is it always been have you always been an indie all makes models kind of person? Or did you did you get a stand at a dealership at all or?

14:59 No, I've always been independent. So at that shop that I was at, my family owned shop, I we were an emissions repair station, certification station, a break and lamp center here in the state of California. And then we were also a general auto repair and maintenance and tires. So we pretty much did a little bit of everything. And when I turned 18, my existing mentor, which was Ben, he told me, hey, go get your smog license. And then that's when I attended a school in the city of Colton, which became the school that I actually started teaching at. That's where I went and I took my only formal education, which was at that point was an alternative to a six ACA and L one and then two state required classes and that that would qualify us to take the actual state exam. So once I took the test, I passed it, got my license. And then now at the shop, they were allowing me to do smog check inspections because I had the license. They were allowing me to start doing some of the electrical work. We had the snap on modus and the vantage at the time. So we were using that for testing. So that's where I started really getting a lot of my application of what I learned in school because we had pretty much the equipment we needed and the available equipment at the time to actually do a lot of the dyad work. And progressively within about six or seven months, we were kicking some for lack of a better term, kicking some ass when it came to dyad.

16:32 So shop was doing pretty good at that time. That's good. That's good. I mean, and that's the thing. I grew up reading about how California was like the hotbed of so much of the industry in terms of cars can stay alive a little longer, I think, right? Just because of the climate. So I mean, you get a lot of exposure to, like you were saying, if somebody's working on a carburetor that's driving around one, it's going to be in some of those warmer, sunnier climates, right? And I mean, that's all rotted away. So other than if it's like somebody's Resto project, we don't see it. But I mean, I can remember Hot Rod magazine, it was like in the 90s, you know, and people's dailies were still like early 70s, right? You're still seeing that old technology. So I mean, it's sometimes I'm going to make a bucket trip at one point to LA just to see it. Yeah, man. But I mean, it's, you know, I think that'd be super cool. But it's that old technology is what got so many of us hooked on the industry and all that kind of stuff. And I do think it's we're blessed to have had it. Yeah, because there's going to come a time where nobody's going to even know what a carburetor is. Right. Right. So it's like, we talk about it. And yeah, there's some young people that like but, you know, if they kind of mess around with an older motorcycle or, you know, dirt bike or something like that, that technology is still there. So it's still relevant. So, you know, when we I'm on the fence, when we talk about should we teach it to kids, or students, young people getting into the industry, you know, you just like, well, no, you want to throw them all the way into like, nothing older than 96. But I mean, really, that fundamental stuff, there's still a lot of stuff running around out there that has points and a carb on it. And I think it's important that we still teach it so that they they're not at the mercy of their side by side or their forward repair center, they can take it apart, fixing themselves, you know, it's, it's an important thing, I think. So definitely. And it's sometimes that just puts the fun back in the job. You know what I mean? Like, it's just Yeah, something fun can can really

18:48 be good for the soul. So yeah, definitely. One thing we do is we kind of touch on it, but towards the end. So first, we get them accustomed to, you know, inputs, outputs. And then once they understand that, then like, okay, so before we had that, we had a carburetor. Yeah. So we would touch, we touch a little bit on it. During ignition, we do touch on distributor type ignition system. We have a 91 Corolla is one of our lab cars. So we're able to show them the whole setup, we do the primary connection to the coil, and then we'll go plug wire by plug wire, get a scope capture. So we teach them that this one's also a MPI. So we teach them how it's gonna you'll see two injectors firing at the same time. So it's it has a lot of fun with that one. And then we have our newer one. And then we just bought a hybrid that we just started throwing at them

19:40 as a curveball now. Yeah, yeah. It's a my boss just bought a 2023 hybrid wrap for so I haven't had a chance to driving yet. But I mean, it looks it's pretty slick, slick looking. It goes, he's got that and he's got a Tesla Model Y. So I mean, it's nice. Yeah, it's that's an impressive car to

20:03 drive. So yeah, it's yeah, amazing piece of machinery. Honestly, it definitely is definitely as we just added. Well, actually, they're doing the wiring right now for a level two charger that Chad from top Don sent us over. So we're getting that wired up right now. So we can start

20:20 a working on some EV stuff. Yeah, it's, it's, it still intimidates me when I think about it, right? Because it's, it's so and I'm not, I'll be honest, I'm not completely 100% behind the whole idea that that the grid will support everybody, you know, operating one, I think. And that's if we start to talk about that, are we going to price ourselves into 10% of the people are only going to be able to afford a car, right? Or going to be able to use a car and the rest of us. That's a scary thing. And it, you know, when we think about how much North Americans culture relies on the automobile is built on the automobile. That's, that's a daunting possible for for our future. So I don't, I don't, you know, every EV, I don't embrace it and just, oh, yeah, it's, you know, the technology is amazing. The performance is incredible. But it's just when I think about like, for instance, if you watch that guy, rich rebuilds, it does on YouTube that takes the, the Teslas and whatnot that have been written off and, you know, salvage titles and rebuilds them, right? He runs a shop that does all that. And then he gets some doing fascinating guy. He started out buying a Tesla that had been salvaged and wanting to fix it up. And then he ran into the whole roadblock of, you know, how it used to be. Tesla wouldn't sell you parts, wouldn't give you anything, right? So, so he's been one of the, at the forefront in the social media aspect of showing everybody the, the beautiful parts of, of Tesla and EV and then hoops sometimes got to jump through to navigate it. So, I mean, it's, yeah, I, I'm not an expert on the, on the company by any stretch or, or EV at all, but it's just interesting to see how what is supposed to be completely out of the realm would do it yourself. Or there's a guy that's showing that, yep, I rebuilt one in my backyard. You know, I had a basic tool set and he's not, he had a better than our understanding. He's an engineer, I think by trade, you know, he didn't have all these fancy tools and everything. He just was like, how does it work? And he took it apart and fixed it. So I mean, you know, good for him, right? Like it's, you know, I like that resiliency of saying, okay, I want to know how, you know, exactly. It's, yeah, it fascinating what, what can, what it can do. But for instance, my boss is like, it's, it, I'm, I live, so 200 kilometers from me is Toronto, right? Okay. The biggest city in Canada. And then 200 kilometers in the other direction is Ottawa, which is our nation's capital, Canada's capital. He cannot drive to Toronto without having to pull over and charge his Tesla. So it does not have the range that, yeah. So, yeah. I mean, you know, now, if you keep it at 105 kilometers, which is, what 61 miles an hour or something like that, around 60. It certainly, but I mean, we don't drive like that up here. Not even here. You'll get ran over. Yeah. We don't drive 55 at all here. It's, you know, we drive fast. So it's, it's, the range is not there. That's why he went and got the hybrid route four is because it's the Tesla's fine for his commute to work. He's five minutes from the shop where we work. And then everything else around town. But if he has to do any business travel, it was just getting to be a headache to try and find a charger for, for it and, you know, add into your day. So he drove from here to Florida for a conference. And normally you can make that trip in about 20 hours. And he had to add another day and a half to his trip just when he, when he took the Tesla. So, you know, that was like, okay. Like he enjoyed the fact that he's not paying gas, right. But it does add a substantial

24:17 amount of your time. So, you know, then you also run the risk of that fast charger, not working and all that fun stuff. Right. So what, so give us a day to day, how many, how many students do you, do you interact with in a day? How many classes like, so for me personally, the way I run my classes, I try to do, I try to do not quick. We'd get it done quickly, but so my students come four times a week and they're here Monday through Thursday from six 30 to 10 30. And then they're here for a total of seven weeks. So that's about 112 hours or so that, that they're with me. My Spanish instructor actually has five separate classes that he does throughout the week. And so he gets to see roughly about 60 different students throughout the entire week. I myself get to see anywhere between 12 to 30 students, depending on what class we're actually teaching at the time. So it's, it's interesting because I get to see a lot of different sides of the industry. When I get kids that kind of remind me of myself, that the, they come in and they're like, yeah, my dad's making me come. So I'll sit down and talk to them. It's like, are you trying to, are you just doing this because your dad's sending you? And they're like, yeah, you know, I'm not really into this car stuff, but my dad wants me to come. So I'm just doing him a solid, most of the time what we do is we'll sit down with them. Like, look, man, money is always refundable, but your time's not, if this is not something you really want to do, you really need to talk to your parents and find something you want to. And then a lot of times when we talk to them that way, they're, they'll, they'll come back and like a total reset. Well, we'll see them come in and actually want to start picking some stuff up. And then once that happens and they get their little aha or their, their light bulb moment, when that really happens, these guys are like, what's my next class? What's the next thing I could take? How do I use this? How do I use that? Hey, today at the shop, me and my dad ran into this problem. So a lot of times it comes to that, that no communication, you know, as a, as a son or a daughter, you know, but that I feel that us as instructors, that's one of our, our jobs as well as to not motivate these kids, but more of inspire them and guide them. Because a lot of times, you know, that people get sent to the automotive industry because they say, Oh, well, you can't, you suck at this, you suck at that. You can't be this. And they're here, go, go work on cars. But if we start really being mentors to these kids and these, I mean, I say kids, but sometimes I have students that are in their thirties that, you know, are, are still not sure what they want to do. And, and my job is to guide them is like, if this is really a fit for you, let's work on this. If this is not a fit for you, then I suggest we move you to either this class or a different career path in its total. And that has really helped out. I feel a lot because we start, that's when I started seeing students that will say, you know what, you got a point. And then they'll, they'll transition more to the mechanical aspect. Or I've seen some of these guys where they start liking more of the electrical stuff. So they start drifting into more electrical. Every so often, you know, I'll have one, two, three students come back with passing ASC's. I get to write them a check for that. So I make them that promise as well. So being able to, to see a different, you know, we see all range of, of guys coming through here, new, new guys. I have a veteran techs. One, one student that comes to my mind right now was in my diagnostic class last year. And here in California, we're required every five years to either have a six, a, a L one ASC or take an alternative class. So I was teaching the alternative class and he sat through it. By the end of the class, he had recertified a six, a L one. Even though he said he would never do it again, because he never saw like a value to it. And at the end of the class, he had already redone all three because he said that we, we inspired and

28:46 motivated him to do it again. Yeah. Cause that's an interesting subject, right? When we talk about that in the forums and the groups and whatever pose that I posed it in the change in the industry, I think a couple of weeks ago about ASCs or essays, sorry. And, and you know, is it really, if you're going to hire the exact same person to a clone of the next person comes in and they're going to drop identical resumes, identical work experience, right? The only difference is one has, you know, certifications and the other one doesn't, which one are you going to hire? Well, it was a resounding, I'm going to hire the, the one with the certs, because it says that they took pride in it and they took some initiative to actually take the test and everything else. Cause Oscar, I'm sure you've seen it. You've heard it a million times, probably, right? I don't need that certification. You know, I've fixed the car without it. Like tell us, you know, you obviously, I know how, how you think, and you know that there are people out there that fix it without it, but it's

29:46 certainly right. It is to their advantage to have them. Yes. Absolutely. I know a couple dealerships that I've done training for out here in SoCal that actually pay you, the highest I saw was a dollar 50 per ASC. So, Hey, you get all, you get an ASC master. That's already like 10 bucks on top of your normal pay just for having them. Then most of them are paying you the, your time for taking the test and then they reimburse you the test. So I see it as advantageous to actually do it. What I, the way I look at my ASCs, it's not that it makes me better. It's not that it makes me worse. I use my ASCs as a grade scale of my own personal education and knowledge. So basically, if I take an ASC, once I get my result, whether I passed or failed, I always analyze them and look at what areas am I weak in? And then this helps me determine my weaknesses where I can then study up, research more, get some training in those areas. And then I use that as a guide to help me become better instead of using it as a bragging, right? Cause honestly it's not, it's, it's just a piece of paper. You know, you can have a degree and still be a dumb ass, but you know, it really doesn't mean anything. But I just use it as a way to kind of grade myself on where I am with my, with my

31:19 level of knowledge and experience. That's an excellent attitude. I mean, up here in Canada, we don't really recognize it at all. Like, I mean, it's not, you know, if you were to go around and say, you know, who has one, I only know of one chain, chain store, Canadian Tire, which is our, our biggest player in the aftermarket. That, that does any kind of advertising to say that they do it and they, and they, you know, try to motivate their texts to get it. But it, up here, it's not up here. We have that, like we have our apprenticeship program and then, you know, you actually get a trade license for doing it, right? And it takes like several thousand hours of on the job and in class and you know, you write tests. And for what I've, I can't tell you the exact, when they say, oh, well, if you like, for instance, my code is three 10 S that means three 10 S is service technician automotive three 10 is a nation. Somebody said, if you're, if you have that, your ASC master certified, like I should be able to take that. And they said, if you were to go down to the States and try and get a job and you told people, this is what they told us years ago. Anyway, how accurate, no, no, it would say, if you went to the States and said, well, I'm three 10 S what we used to call a red seal. You'd immediately heard that you'd get hired. So now we don't call it red seal, because it's kind of, they still use a red seal, but it's they, they went and changed it about five or six years ago, re-change some of the designations, split it up a bit and whatnot. So it used to be, cause you could be licensed, but in order to have a red seal, you had to score above a certain percentage. And then that meant that your license wasn't just okay in the province that you worked. You could, if you moved out of province, similar idea to move into another state, it was still recognized. So you guys are great because yours is recognized every state, right? You know, right here, it's a, it's a, you know, it's a provincial thing. So I, so I can't, I mean, I've, I've seen people in the, in the industry that have never even, never got that certification up here. And I can't say that when I worked with them, that, you know, they were competent, but there is, there is something to be said that, you know, if you take the initiative to get the, the, get the exams done, get your certification, it is a next level of when you're looking to hire somebody for sure that you can say, okay, for sure they've had at least this many hours of in-classroom training. They've had at least this many hours on the shop floor where they've been mentored and somebody has been watching what they've been doing. Right. Without that, it could be the wild, wild west, you know, like, I mean, and, and, you know, I don't want to run down people that don't have certification. I just think that it's, as the technology is moving, I think Oscar, it's going to become even more important Absolutely. It'll be the way it has to go, I think, you know.

34:18 Oh yeah. I mean, I see it just with safety concern. I mean, we don't even have to look into hybrids, you know, there's plenty of things on a car right now that can hurt you. You know, you don't know how to properly disable SRS. You're taking off a steering wheel for a clock spring. That thing deploys in your face. It could kill you. So, you know, it's, it's definitely one of those things where people really need to be on their A game when it comes to training. And I don't know about up in Canada, but I know here in California, training is like frowned upon. It's weird where people look at you like, why are you wasting your time going to training? I've been doing this for 40 years. Like, yeah, bro, you've been doing brakes and suspension for 40 years. Why are you talking down? Because I'm trying to learn electrical. So yeah, it's, it's crazy.

35:09 And you wouldn't think that that would be, well, I mean, I don't, we know it still happens, but Oscar, what do you think is going to be, if you were to take the, the certification out of it, how do you motivate the younger people to, to go past the, the basic nuts and bolts and into the die and into the electrical and into the EV? How do you, how do you motivate them to do it? Just with money?

35:37 I don't even think money is a factor now. I've actually asked a lot of these guys, like, you know, about money and they're not really looking at the money anymore. They're looking at more of what's my environment going to be wherever I'm going to be working at. I think that has a better value to them now than, than the money. Because I think in their mind, they're thinking higher, higher pay means I'm going to be treated worse. So they'd much rather have that good work environment and have an, an average or okay salary versus a top paying job,

36:20 but being treated like crap. Yeah. Yeah. Cause and okay. When we talk, you know, it's always the same thing that comes back to, well, I can, you know, I can produce a lot of hours doing this, you know, I can, I can, I can make the shop a lot of money doing, you know, breaks and front end and tires and stuff like that. Right. But I always looked at it as like, I can find guys that can do that. You know what I mean? I can, I it's, it's, I don't want to say it's easy because nothing in this industry anymore is easy to learn or easy to do or easy to find somebody where such a shortage, but I always told everybody I worked with and mentored under me, try to make yourself, you know, get into that stuff that other people struggle with or get into those, those subjects that people shy away from, make yourself, because, you know, we were always told if you're a mechanic, you'll always have a job. Sure. That's true. That is 100%. I have never been out of work unless I chose to be out of work, but I always try to tell the young people, make yourself in this as indispensable as you can, right? Make yourself, you have that skillset that is a, you have that skillset that is one in 10 half, not, you know, eight out of 10 half, you know, right. Um, because if you have that skillset, you can do what the other eight out of 10 do, but if you have that one, you know, and they've only kind of hire one person and that's, you can fill that role. It, it helps you. It's not even about the money. It's just a situation to be able to say, like it opens up more opportunities. I feel, you know, if you're strong at electrical, strong at driveability, strong at diagnostics, there's a lot of guys that can, you know, do a break job in somebody's driveway for them. But if you have to, that car is towed into you. And it's been to, you know, we hear about the problem cars and the nightmare cars and the, you know, all the different topics going on. How do we charge for this? And if you're just one of those shops that is known to fix the car, you get all the other work that comes with that, right? If the customers all want to go to one shop, really, they really do. If you can handle it all, that's take my money. Here's my keys. Call me when it's done. It's that trust factor. If you can get them coming into the door because you're known to be able to solve the problems, you're going to get all the other work too. And I think that's how we entice that the, at the technician level, we entice them to that, you know, you may see people move in and out of shops and, you know, they don't have ASC certification or they don't tackle the diag work. But if you can get some of that under your belt, you're, you know, yeah, you're going to, you're going to have struggles. It's, it's a different skillset. It's a different mindset, but you can, you can navigate this industry, I think,

39:09 with a few more opportunities because of that advanced training, right? So absolutely. Attitude. I'm right there with you on that one. Yeah. Yeah. What I tell my students is find a specialty. And I talked a lot about specialty training and knowledge because of that. And, you know, when I start my diagnostic class, I always tell my students is, you know, there's, you have mechanics and technicians and I'm not talking down on mechanics because we need them. You know, I don't do mechanical work. I know how, but I, I'm too expensive to do ball joints and breaks. Right. So what I tell my students is if you want to be a mechanic, that's great, but this is not the class for you because we're going to go through the technical side and that's going to make you more valuable and you're going to have to work less. And, well, that's when a lot of these guys really start wanting to do the electrical, the engine performance. And, you know, for me, anytime somebody asks me what I do, my specialties are drivability, electrical and emissions. If it falls into any of those three, I got you a hundred percent. If it falls out of it, I could still do it, but would you want to pay me to do that? Right. And if, and like exactly, like you said, if we can inspire these guys to find that specialty within this whole crazy trade we have, they're going to excel. And like you said, you have that one open spot. They'll pick them over somebody else because of their ability to die. Their ability to do an emission repair, their ability to find those crazy electrical problems and repair them. So that I do believe the same that that finding that one specialty within everything we do will definitely make you stand out. And obviously your value increases

41:01 and you should be compensated for that. Yeah. I think that's important, right. And that's, it's just like you said, it's not always about the money. I have seen some guys, I've worked with them. I might've been one of them at once or twice that had, you know, a skillset that the others didn't have. And I don't want to say that I got away with some things that maybe they wouldn't have, right. But I mean, I could have a grumpy day and people just left me alone because they're like, okay, well, you know, we need that guy. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. If you're just the guy over there that's forever, you know, chained to the tire machine or chained to the, you know, alignment rack and you come in and have a grouchy day, they might go, well, you know, to heck with you. I got a resume on the desk right now with another guy that I can, you know, replace you. Whereas that guy over there that solves the problems, we got to let, you know, just kind of let him have his day. Give him his space, right? You know, it's, it's, I always, so many people that I've worked with and whatnot, you know, you kind of see them and it's like, okay, I understand why they're like that because those kinds of problems you take home with you, right? Like I've, we've all those kinds of cars that just like keep us up at night, you know, or I'm glad it's not just me. I have, it's like, if I have to come in, it's a mental thing. If I have to come in and that same car is there three mornings in a row, it starts to really mess my head up, right? Because it can, it can be even the same car there for a whole bunch of different work, just not one problem. But I don't know how some of these guys can do it where they have these cars, multiple problem cars in the shop and they kind of navigate through the different cars and whatnot. And they're sitting there and this is waiting for this and this is waiting for that. And they go back to that. I could never sleep Oscar. I would be, I'd be 500 pounds from stress eating and I've even worked under my eyes because I would not sleep. I would be so, I can remember those cars from my career way back in the, in the dealership days, where it's like, what is wrong with that stupid car? You know, and your, your phone and tech line and that was the beauty of dealerships was that you had known good cars. So you could go and look at the data. You could go and look, you know, it was, you had a part right in the Bay next to you. Sometimes you just known good parts and that all works when it doesn't work. Right. When it's in it's, but when you're trying to get intermittent stuff to happen or trying to track down that thing that the customer says it does many nights of loss of sleep, trying to, how do I duplicate that? How do I explain? Sometimes it's just, how do I explain it? Right. It's the, it's the communication breakdown of, so I've always felt more data is, is good when people start to say, Oh, I can't, you know, this, the scan tools are doing too much. It's given me too much. Yeah. I want, I want some very basic pids, right. That I'm always going to look at, but the more it can give me, the more codes it can give me, man, that helps so much more, right. It, it just, it, it opens up, it streams lines my process so much faster, you know, and I don't know how guys do it. I do not know. I've, I've touched a few OBD one cars of my day and that was a different thing. Like it was like it was metals, but it was rudimentary. But even then you're looking at it going, this doesn't make sense. There's no way it even made sense to the engineer. And then they're like, well, it kind of did, but their hands were tied. You know what I mean? Like it was, everything was so new and, and in its infant infant in infancy that, you know, they were working with what they had to work with. And now we look at it and go, Oh, we're so spoiled. Like it's, you know, what you don't have, you know, topography of all the modules, like, right. Like, you know, it's, it's, it's fascinating. And that's what I think is, is, you know, when I look for people that I align with, or I gel with in a shop or, you know, in the culture at all, I look for those people that like really get it, you know, that can, that have been and seen some of the old stuff and know how the progression happened. And that's, that's key. You know, that's, then you can appreciate what you have. Yeah. You still get stressed out by it for sure. But absolutely. I live for the challenges, right? I, you know, I get bored on just putting the steering rack in, or I get bored on just being a small arm in, or putting brakes on, or doing tires. I do a lot of that work still, but it's just boring. You know, it's hard, it's hard to get fired up about it, but give me that car that's got a miss or, you know, down on power or no codes or something. Then I'm just like the, the wheels start grinding to turn and then you're like,

45:45 Oh, this is why I got into this. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And the crazy part is you could still turn back to your old school fundamentals. You know, there's so many cars that we've diagnosed with a vacuum gauge. Yeah. We, you know, a propane enrichment tool. So it didn't die. They're still there.

46:05 And when people say, no, that was one of the first videos of yours that I ever watched was one of the, like when you pull the vacuum gauge out. And I mean, I was just like, see, this guy gets it, you know, he, you know, cause I mean, yeah, all the other stuff is great. Pressure transducers, pulse sensors, all that is fantastic. But I mean, if, if, if we can take a $6 tool out of the drawer and we can show the same result of diagnostic process, man, that is so much, you know, less intimidating to people when, especially when they're starting out, you know, I don't always need to have every piece of information. I just need to have the important piece of information that says, yes, for sure. Right. It's not going to be fixed with a spark plug wire or an injector or something like it is, you've got a burnt valve, you know, how to proceed from this. Like, so that's great. Okay. You don't want to fix the car. Cool. My die egg is done. You know, that's, it's fascinating to know, okay, I can, I can go in further and I can tell you what cylinder it's on. But I mean, if it's a car on its last legs and nobody, they just want to know that they're not going to waste money on a tune up. Heck, give me that tool, you know, give it to me. Like, I love that. I thought that was so cool when you put that video up. I'm like, ah, yes. And it's cause you'll see people that are not necessarily, when you go onto YouTube and down the rabbit holes and stuff, it'll be somebody that's not necessarily an industry professional and they're showing how they do it. Right. And it might be like, Oh, I'm dialing a carburetor screws up when I'm using a vacuum gauge. That's all cool and stuff. But what you want to see is somebody that always has a, okay, but he's not a pro attached to it. Right. Which we don't, right. Sometimes we make that assumption when it's somebody like yourself, that it's like, okay, he is a automotive instructor teaching this for free to people out there on the, on YouTube. It comes with a little bit more credibility, I guess is what I'm saying. I saw that video. I was like, that's awesome. That's cool.

48:05 Thanks, man. No, I mean, cause it's, it's, you start at the basics, right? Like it's so important, so important, you know, we actually, I still teach that in my AA class, you know, teach them how many inches of vacuum do you have while the engine's cranking? If you see zero, you have a timing chain or timing belt that went out. You know, I remember that from the old KIAs like we used to see the KIAs, Rios and what was it? Safiyas or something like that. Coming on a tow truck and go grab the vacuum gauge unplug, I act plug in the gauge crank it zero inches. This thing needs an engine. Don't even drop it. You know, so little stuff like that was quick and easy and it still works today. That's why pressure transducers work. Cause it's basically a digital

48:53 representation of a vacuum gauge. So it all, it all goes back to the fundamentals. I've had so many coworkers I've watched burn their hands trying to take out an oxygen sensor to thread in a bung to check back pressure. And it's like, why don't you just put a vacuum gauge on it and see if it, if you know, if it'll build positive pressure in the intake, I don't have to, you know, fart around with getting that O2 out or tapping a hole in the exhaust. There's my proof right there. I don't have to touch anything, right? Like I don't, I can save some time. I don't have to cause you know how that's going to go. You take that oxygen sensor out, the threads are going to come with it. Come with it. You might not have to sell them an oxygen sensor just to say, okay, yes, for sure. Your cat's plugged and your O2 is bad. And they're like, Oh, I'm getting rid of the car. Well, now at least you got to put an oxygen sensor in it just to go get rid of the car. Like nobody wants that. If we do it fast and we can do it simple, that's always going to be my attack. You know, I'm not a, I'm not a scope guru. So it's like, you know, anything that I can revert back to the, to the

49:52 basics, to the old stuff, the stuff that I learned on, I love that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Same here. That's what I always tell the students is if it's hard, you're not going to do it. So we got to find the easy way to do this. So this way you can get it done. If not, you're going to revert to the parts canon. And that's, that's, that's why most of these guys ended up in that situation.

50:12 Yeah. It's, it's, I want to say Oscar, it's getting better. I think with, with the way the internet and people talking and stuff, I think we're seeing kind of a resurgence, not a resurgence, but an uprising of a lot of people that are just like, no, I want to spend the time to know what's wrong. You know, I don't want to just load the identifix parts, scan on it and go, I, I'm seriously seeing from when I started the network with so many people years ago to now, I'm seeing more people that are just like, no, I don't want to be that way. Right. I want to, I want to diagnose and fix this car. I mean, we all, we all know our pattern failures and we all like, you know, make money on them and rely on them and try not to overcomplicate the situation by, you know, ignoring it. Right. That's right. Get you down a wormhole just as bad. But, you know, our, our friend Paul Danner, right. Um, was so much of what he says is don't be a parts changer. You know, don't it's starting to resonate with people. I'm starting to see it. And I mean, we're so thankful to have guys like you and guys like him that, that are out there showing people, no, man, you don't have to do it the way, you know, it was always done. Here is the, you know, the way to do it. I think that is, you know, we talk all the time about changing the industry. Right. And there's so many, I don't want to call them problems, but there's so many challenges to this industry. What makes it, what, what is beautiful about it is the struggle. You have to embrace that grind. Right. Um, but I want to see, I want us to be able to say, you know, to entice people into it. I want to be, you know, brutally honest and say, yes, it is going to, you're going to make a lot of investment in tools. You're going to make a lot of investment in training. You're going to spend a lot of time that you might not be paid for learning and, and developing, but you can, you know, the rewards will, will offset that. And, and I think it's, social media has been a wonderful thing. And, uh, you know, because it really has people out there, right? Like that, that I didn't know who you were a year ago, Oscar. I had no clue, no clue. Now, and now we're sitting here talking about such an important thing to both of us, right? And the industry, I mean, that's, yeah, it's powerful stuff. Like it's, you know, it's, it's life-changing. I mean, my first destination event was AST and I'd never been to any. Yeah. And I'd never been to anything like that in my life, you know? So to see all these people that I had, I had read their articles in trade magazines and I had seen them online and all this kind of stuff was like, it was like walking on clouds. You know, it was like, it was, it was, it was amazing. It's, uh, I think everybody should, at some point should, should, yes. One of

53:00 those trips, you know, it's, yes, they're expensive and yes, it's, you know, but I think everybody should just for what it does to your, your passion, right? Like it's, you know, you came up, uh, was the last month you came up all the way up to New York. You met my friend. Yeah, man. Oh, that was a crazy week. Um, so I had just gotten back from a family vacation, um, with my in-laws, um, Monday night, excuse me, Tuesday, Wednesday morning, I hop on a flight to, uh, Dallas, Fort Worth for, to meet a good friend of mine, John Firm and, uh, Jeff Buckley. Yes. And then, um, Friday morning I was scheduled to fly back home, but Thursday night I get a phone call from, uh, a good friend, Mr. G Trulia. And he says, Hey, uh, what are you doing? First I was, uh, struck, man, like, Oh crap. G truly is calling me. Um, and so he's like, Hey, um, see you here in TST. Uh, so get on the phone and I got a flight instead of, uh, coming back to California, I hopped on an airplane to, um, New York and attended TST flew back home, got here about Sunday around midnight, and then, uh, I got back to work on Monday. Uh, so it was,

54:22 uh, it was super crazy. I could, uh, I confirmed it with my, with my friend Brian that you, you traveled the farthest to go to that event. Do you, you want to, yeah, that was, is he not a great guy or what a Brian is hilarious, bro. Uh, Brian's hilarious, uh, him Dutch together or, oh, oh, bad. I had a blast with these guys at ETI. Um, it was amazing. Uh, yeah, nothing on Dutch, eh, nothing on Dutch Ted talks, nothing Dutch is Dutch. It's one. I think he's going to replace taco Carlson. I really do. Like you think, all right. Oh, man. Dutch is a Dutch is a guy that I, I, I remember seeing his name way back in IETN before I was on Facebook and, uh, I got to meet him at AST and I was like, I'm that guy that, you know, did that podcast for ASOG where, you know, I said everything was screwed and you know, messed up and all that kind of stuff. And he just like, he just shook my hand and he's like, Oh, okay. Yeah. I know who you are now. And it was like, I, cause to me, I had met somebody like that. I had a ton of respect for, for, for how smart he had always been way back when, you know what I mean? Right. Or how he thought about the business, you know? Yeah. And, to meet him was so cool. And I mean, Brian, Brian, I had never met until I got to AST. We had talked for a year. I mean, yeah. Like we talk, Brian and I talk every day, every day. And I mean, we would, there's been so many conversations we've had and you know, cause it's just a sounding board. He'll be frustrated with something. He'll message me and he'll leave this voice rant and then I'll message him back and I'll leave a voice rant. And he's like, you can't believe what I'm doing today. It's so screwed up and blah, blah, you know, it just goes on and on. And it's, it's so helped us through some really difficult days, not even just about the job stuff, right? It can be the stuff going on away from work. I'm so thankful to have him in my life. So thankful. And then when I got to meet Paul at AST, that was, that was so cool. Like, cause I mean, Paul is one of the, I mean, he's our, he's our celebrity, right? He's our celebrity in the industry. I mean, they're all, Oh yeah. All guys are, but he is the one that is like, seems to bridge everybody together in terms of like, you know, cause there's some guys that like, they may not, they know you're somebody in the industry, but they're like, how do I know him again? How do I know him? Right? Paul is, everybody knows Paul. Everybody knows of Paul. And I see that was, was super Mario. He's headed the

57:05 same way. Everybody knows who super Mario is. Mario is just like, you know, and for, for a young man, it's scary how smart that kid is. Like it is. Oh yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. And he's so humble, man. I got to meet him at AST the first time comes up to me. What's up, Adam? Like, Oh crap. Shit. Like, Hey, what's up, bro? You know, I, I like froze, but he is so humble, super cool.

57:34 And smart that kid, my respects, man. Yeah. He's, he's got it figured out. I mean, I'm so, I'm interested to see where he goes in this, cause you know, he, he talks about, you know, his back gives him some issues sometimes. Right? So it's like, he, he, he wants to, and, oh, if he, if he gets into teaching, I mean, you know, he should, yeah, he really should imagine what that would be like. I mean, not, not, not running down you at all. Right. It's just think of the powerhouse now that we would have with, with this industry and how we, cause there's a guy that started young, started a YouTube channel and then goes into education. You know, we, we all kind of know Paul's story. You know, Paul is, is used the, the YouTube channel just to make videos for his class. You know, it's just a way to download them so they can, if we see that, if, if I, to live through that in the industry where I could see that evolution, man, that'd be something to see. That's yeah, man. I mean, and I think, I think if Mario, I'm sure, I don't know if he'll listen, hope he does. If he hasn't thought about it, I'm sure he probably has. He needs to think about it. Cause I mean, yeah, you know, he's, oh yeah.

58:52 Yeah. His knowledge level and his skillset, man, very sought after. And like I said, just, like I said, just, just the way the person he is, he'll freaking just knock it out, man.

59:07 Such a good, yeah. You know, if he is listening, he should really get into education. Yeah. I think, I think he'd be a natural at it. Just like, you know, cause it's he, even when you watch how his videos, he takes some of the most advanced cars and breaks it down into just the basic stuff again, right? Which is what, which is all it really all is about. You know what I mean? It's don't look at the emblem on the front of the car. Just look at the circuit that you're trying to fix, you know? And exactly. He does that so well. I mean, all of you guys, you do it. Everybody does it so well, but yeah, it was just, it was a thrill to meet him and so many guys at AST. It really was. And that's it. If it wasn't for AST, I wouldn't be sitting here right now doing this, right? I would not be. So, you know, it's, it changed my, my trajectory on where, where it doesn't necessarily change where I see myself going, but it definitely fires me up to go to work and, and, you know, live through the grind and, and push myself like I'm not a young man to push myself to continue to constantly improve. You know, we could all fall back on our laurels and, you know, it goes back to pattern failure. We can, you know, we can kind of do the job through a pattern failure type attitude, right? I can go up and I can do my hours and I can, you know, fix the cars I don't want to fix. And I can say, I don't want to touch that because, you know, I'm old and, but when we think about the technology has never once stopped and it's not going to stop. And so I think at this point, if there's any mechanics, technicians listening, and they've got that attitude that, you know, I don't want to learn anymore. I just want to, I just want to work and I want to fix cars, take some training, watch some videos. If go to an event where you sit down with these people, because it, it will invigorate you. It'll fire you back up to be like, okay, you know, it's just 10 more percent, 10%. If I can make myself 10% better. Yeah. You know, that's all it takes. It's, you know, it's so, that's what's powerful. And that's what's going to change, change this industry for us. That's how we sell this to the next, the young people getting in is it's not going to be about the money. Cause yeah, you, you make a good living. There's no doubt about it. I've made an okay living doing this. I had to work really hard for it. And sometimes we get wrapped up in the, well, I could have made just as much money doing, you know, hanging drywall or, or do being a roofer for, you know, in a nice climate, 12 months of the year, right up here, you can only really rule for, you know, seven months and then it's, you're going to get blown off the roof. The wind's going to, but, you know, but you wouldn't have those, those, you wouldn't have that memory bank full of, you know, inspiring things or things that kicked your, your butt that taught you those lessons, right? You wouldn't have that. And I mean, you can't put a price on that. You can't, you can't put it in just a little box and sell it to people. You have to get out there and show the people, tell them the stories of, you know,

01:02:13 this is how this was my aha moment. This was my light bulb moment. Exactly. Exactly. I always tell people learn from my failures so you don't do the same. You know, I already lived them. I already, I have an answer for you. Use it. If you don't, that's fine. But you'll find out the hard way that that's exactly what you should not have done.

01:02:33 And that's life lessons, right? It's we take that even if it's got nothing to do with this industry at all. That's just an important lesson, right? Always go around with eyes open and ears open, mouth shut a lot more of the time. Watching where people have gone down the wrong road or we talk about that and sometimes we forget it because we go, oh, that tech failed to fix that because he went down the wrong road. Cool. But bring that back around to all of life and see how learn from other people's where they stepped off the path, you know, and, and things they had, it took them a long time to come back if at ever. Right. Just watch the signs, you know. Yeah. It's, I think that's so key. If we can keep it to that basic fundamentals, we all become easier. We, we learn better. But what do you, what do you want to see change in the industry?

01:03:24 I want to see a lot of the older, not older guys, but the more experienced guys, take an apprentice under your wing, show them the right way of doing things. And that's going to help us start changing the industry one tech at a time. I get it. You know, we're in the automotive industry. We prank, we do a lot of dumb things we shouldn't be doing. Keep that to a minimum. This way we can keep those guys engaged and don't make them come as an apprentice to, you know, clean after you do all this. No, have them there as an apprentice and show them, be a good mentor to these kids. And I, and I foresee that we can change this trajectory that we're having all this, all these people leave and nobody coming in, we could change that if we change the way that we treat them. You know, we were, I came in in a, in that era where you were treated like a, the shop mop. And, you know, I was able to push through it because my mentor was there, giving me these setting goals with me and then saying, all right, here's what we got to do. Once you hit that, then we're going to do this. Then we're going to do this. And throughout the whole process, he was there pushing me. I, he would give me homework. I would have to test stuff, bring away forms. So be that mentor. You know, when my mentor told me is pay it forward and that's what I'm doing now. And anybody who's willing to listen to me, I'm here to do that. And if you guys could do the same, especially if you have that level of experience, that's going to help, help that, help that apprentice move up to the next step, help them set goals. That's going to help them move up to the next step. Once he gets there, already have a plan of what you're going to do to move up to the next one. And I feel that we can, we can really turn this around as long as

01:05:22 we could do that. That's one of my personal beliefs. Sometimes you'll, you know, you'll, you'll have some resentment, I think, for the person that's giving you the, the, the challenges and the homework. As you said, like having, you know, go home and look at, like, you know, I've never had that much involvement. You know, I've, I've always shown them little things as we've been working and say, okay, here's a better way to do this or here's a faster way to do that. Right. But I've never had to, you know, I've gone as far as to say, okay, so here's some training that I've taken for free online. You're free to, you know, you can find it too. Okay. I've never, I've never, you know, it's always, I think it's sometimes it's, you catch them too late. You catch them when it's already like their trajectory. They've decided is, okay, I'm just, I'm, I'm here to make money. You know, I'm here to, I do, I do transmissions or I do, you know, engine repair and I'm not going to really think outside of my little bubble. Right. And that's the, when you mentioned specialization, specializing, that's something that it's weird, right? Cause I mean, I think, I think in a lot of ways, shops should be specialized in the sense of, you know, finding what they're that niche and really working with it and, and, and developing it and building it. Cause I think too many times, you know, how it goes, sometimes we take on cars that we shouldn't touch, or we know the pride gets in the way and we take those challenges and those, those ego cars, it's problem cars and those nightmare cars, you know, and it's that, that alpha male thing. It's like, I can fix anything. I can do anything. Yes. And two weeks later, that's right. You know, it is okay. So I had 24 hours into this car and I'm going to get six hours labor. Like, yes, there is value to that. The learning and the, and the, the education you took from that, but it can't be a every week thing. You know what I mean? I have maybe one a year or two a year and then the rest of it should go nice and smooth so that you can make money, you know, be efficient. You know, we have to learn in this industry to, to know when to say, no, I'm, I'm very good at it. I know just enough. I say all the time, I know just enough to fool people and I know just enough to, when it gets tough, I can get to the end of it. But man, it's an ugly road sometimes to watch me how I do it because it's just like, it looks like a chicken running around with his head cut off. But I mean, there's, there's a method to it. That's just, I don't want anybody to say, that's how I want to do it. No, no young grasshopper. You want to do it much better than me. You want to like have a much more defined process and right. And way of doing it. I've, I just have a, I have a really good intuition. I have a lot of experience and I'm one of those. I just trust myself too much. I trust my instincts. Right. And that's, that's an important thing. And I don't think he can teach it, but you know, I, I always want people to, you know, go through the steps, not always the way I do it. So, and I think it's just, it's, it's one of those we have to recognize that no two people learn the same and no two people. And we have to develop that where it's like, I don't want to haze them when they come in anymore. I got haze bad when I came in and I had a lot of people look at me and go, are you sure this is what you want to do for a living? Like, you know, because I'm not, if, if I'm a guy that like, if you were to take a carburetor part and throw all the pieces on the bench and say, put that back together, I'd be like, like, I know how it's supposed to work, but I gotta be like meticulous about how I take it apart, put it back together because I don't have that photographic memory of, I can remember how every little nuance of it. And this, I, I'm not strong at that, but if you, if you give me a wiring diagram or a schematic or a blueprint or something, go, you know, read that for me. No problem. You know, so we have to stop hazing them from trying to make them into something that they're not strong. And I think we need to learn how to identify what they're really passionate about and what they're really good at and hope that those two things mesh for them, because we've all seen those, those young people that they really want to be in the drivability or electrical, but it's just, it doesn't click for them. It doesn't click for them, it doesn't click for them. And it's like, you know, okay, so is there a place for you? Yes, there is, but it may be not doing drivability electrical. It might be, you know, that it's more of a, you know, front end, you know, not some bolts type of thing. Maybe you're put them into transmissions, you know, that kind of thing. Like, do you, do you understand it? Oh yeah. Okay. Cool. It's, I think that's the whole thing is we need to stop hazing them and just say, this is what I need when I hired you, you're not it. Good luck in the future. I'm going to go find somebody else. And I think we need to start looking at like, how do I make that person be the best fit in my shop that they can be? Right. Right. And then, I mean, the other thing is it's the thing we don't talk about in this industry is that all these people that they say, Oh, I can't find a tech, I can't find a tech, I can't find a tech for everyone that you hear that if you want to look at some of the comments and some of the other feeds, it's, there are tons of people that talk about this is why I got out of the industry or this is why I started as an automotive apprentice. And then I jumped to a different trade. And a lot of it is because they were hates, right? It was, it's not, we say all the tool debt is, is astronomical. It is, but there's more and more shops. I know they're helping the, young people out by with a starter tool set, right? Like, right. Charles Hummel mechanic got heavily involved with that Paul Danner as well. So I don't think it's always a tool that I think it's when they come in and we haze them, you know, make them, like you said, they're, they're dedicated almost like a janitor instead of actually being a, an apprentice and learning how this stuff is supposed to work. We don't mentor them properly. And then it's like, yeah, so you wanted a guy that was going to be strong at electrical and driveability. This young person is not that, but you need a person in the shop. Help that person survive it, help that person flourish, help that person, you know, get excited about what it is they do, reward them, show them, show appreciation. It's not about money, right? It's if they do a fantastic job, tell them to do a fantastic job, you know, don't sit there and dwell on, I still need this. Use what you have. If you, everybody wants a drivable electrical tech. We know that not everybody is, is strong at that and not everyone out there is going to be one and that's okay. But you know, when you have one, yeah, look after them. The people that come in and their places that don't, don't immediately kick them to the door, figure out how your shop can still flourish, can still get them, give them training for God's sakes. That's the other thing, right? We, we don't, we don't talk about that. Like there's so many more shops and so many more shop owners that need to really understand that you can get some amazing training online. Fantastic. Oh yeah. Right. But it's not, it should supplement. I was just having a conversation with a friend of mine last night. That should be a supplement to, you know, a CTI type of, you know, program or a program like yours or something like that, where, where guys are getting consistent training that that's what they need. It should be part of the shop's culture. You know, it shouldn't be just like, okay, if you want to, if you want to get better, you go home and you apply yourself at night. No, if it's like two hours a week, you sit down on a Friday afternoon, you take a two hour lunch and you throw the training video in and you kind of feed the people and you kind of show them, you know, the, the process, this is how Oscar does it, or this is how Paul does it, or this is how Brandon's talking to you. You start to show them that, get them enthused about it. Right. You know, then, then we change, we start to build up that resource that we have available to us. We get people fired up about it because there's some, I think that, you know, they always thought it was beyond them to be able to actually do diag. And I think once, oh yeah. Right. Once they have a few steps, it's like, they get a little more confidence, a little more. I'm sure you've seen that probably

01:14:02 more than most of us ever will. Right. You ever had a, I see it all the time. I actually have one right now who came into my class and he said, you know, I'm, I'm here cause I, you know, I'm a partner in a shop, you know, but electrical has never been my thing. All right. And right now, actually yesterday, he has personal car on the way to school, got a check engine light, PO 303. And so we pulled it into the classroom yesterday or the lab yesterday. And by the time I turned around, he had a scope out, a paddle probe connected and getting ready to, to test for ignition setup. And, you know, I went over there and tapped on my shoulder. I was like, I thought you didn't, you didn't like electrical. And then he, he just, he gave me the biggest smile. And he's like, it's cause I understand that now. So it's one of those things where just cause you don't like it doesn't mean you can't be good at it. As long as you can get the proper training. You can.

01:15:06 Yeah. That'd be so, that makes you a rich man, eh Oscar, when you think about it, right? Oh yeah. That's why I love what I do. It's just, oh yeah. I'm getting chills just hearing that because it's, you know, I remember my own moments like that, right? I talk about them, but to, to be able to, to see it happen on the, not on the daily, but like, you know, a couple of times a year. Yeah. That's, that'd be so rewarding, man. So rewarding. I can understand how the guys, the educators get the bitten by the bug, right? You know, when even, you know, out of, outside of a school setting, I'm talking like the professionals in the industry that go around. I mean, I'm sure that must be because you think about the hours that they log, you know, the air miles that they amass and stuff traveling around, you know, and teaching all these people and strangers and everything else, but it must be, you know, there must be one in every classroom that just comes

01:16:01 out of there with a handshake and a, and a renewed vigor that's, you know, they walk a little taller and yeah, that would make it worth worthwhile for sure. Yeah. It definitely is, man. It definitely is. Yeah. You just see them and like, yeah, I know that guy's going to do something. So how, like, uh, you, you obviously have seen a lot have succeeded, right? After you've kind of, wow, that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, I have a couple in particular that, um, have like really exceeded. Um, and, uh, two, two of them actually teach for me now. Um, so, you know, one thing that we, we do here at the school is we'd rather develop instructors. Um, cause then this gives us the opportunity again, to pay back to the industry. Cause these guys are, are came to us as students, you know, um, mastered their craft, got all that experience. And then now we're allowing them to feed their experience to the new generation as well. So, uh, uh, that's a proud moment for me as well. When I see them go through my program as a student, come back four or five years later, and then now they're teaching a class for me. So it's, it's really rewarding on both ends.

01:17:24 Yeah. I mean, it's so cool. So cool. You know, do you even just to see one open a shop, I know Paul's talked about, he's, he's had a couple of his students graduate, right. And, and open successful shops and, you know, start to really change what they're doing and how they're doing

01:17:43 it and how they're, how they're perceived in the industry. I mean, that's yeah. Powerful stuff, man. Really? Yeah, man. Yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's so rewarding just with that. Yeah. So what do you, do you see an expansion for you or what, like how, if, if you could make it as big as you wanted to make it, how big would you make it? Nationwide. Yeah. You know, right now we're, we actually just opened up, uh, we're doing, we're doing a class out in Northern California. Um, we're basically looking for shops that would rent us out the shop for, for a fee. Uh, we'll come out, do a class and, uh, they just pretty much host it. So, um, this way we can kind of get to more, more areas. And, um, I'm also working on doing some online stuff, um, just to be able to help out one, one, one of the cool parts of, uh, you know, coming from immigrant parents is I speak two languages. So I also speak Spanish and that's, um, that's helping quite a bit. We've been able to make a good impact in the Spanish community, uh, where they had very little to zero training and what training was available was so outdated that it wasn't benefiting anybody. Um, so we've been able to also get into the Spanish market. Um, I'll be presenting a class at, um, Auto Mecanica from Frankfurt in the city of Mexico, um, in July. So it's, it, then last year I was able to do two, two trainings out there on five gas analysis, uh, in March and in July as well. Uh, so we're, we're seeing a little bit of growth out into the Spanish speaking market and we would love to be able to, you know, either through zoom or in person, um, get out to more shops out in, um, the East coast and, um, Midwest and help out as best as we can. Cause, uh, that's just what we do. I love what I do. And if, uh, I can give you that one golden nugget that you could take away that

01:20:01 just catapults your career, then it was worth it for me. That's awesome Oscar, honestly. Cause I mean, that's yeah, like it's so, you know, we sometimes forget about that, like with the obstacles that somebody might have a language, right. And, and I have that aptitude and that, that ability, but like, I don't even think about that from, from, from my standpoint, right. Because it's just, what is it? 99% of everything is done in English. And you know, like, uh, I mean, it's, it's, it's always been available to me and it's, I, I, I don't appreciate that. And I mean, it's, it's, I don't want to say that it's an untapped market, but I mean, it is kind of some place that, you know, yes, you can really make some change, you know, by, by being able to do that. And it's, it's only to your advantage. I wish I spoke, I speak, I speak English and I speak a very little bit of French. Um, cause in Canada you have to learn some French and, uh, but no Spanish at all, you know, Spanish, we don't even teach Spanish up here. It's, it's really now there's not a whole lot of Latin Americans or Latin people, uh, in Canada. I think it's just too cold. I really think it's, yeah, that would definitely drive them away. I mean, I tell everybody, you should come up here and see it. It's a, it's a beautiful country, but you know, don't, don't come after November. Don't, don't come after November. It's unless you like snow. Um, Brian's one of those guys, he likes snow. He gets the snow machine and you know, but I tell everybody, if you're going to come to Canada, come like, you know, when it's nice because it's, it's a beautiful country and it's, but, and everybody should see it. Um, but it's, you know, don't come in the winter time unless you've, you've been through a winter somewhere else, because once you get up here, it's a little different, like, you know, try, try out Minnesota first or something like that, you know, once you come up here, it's, it's different. So, okay. Yeah. Anyway, Oscar, I want to thank you, man. Honestly, it's, it's, uh, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me, but it's been a pleasure to get to know you. And I mean, I'm, I still, the goal is to go back to AST or get to another event next year and, uh, to meet you in person. Um, I know you want to meet Paul real bad. So we got to, we got to work on Paul to, cause to show up because he likes the events, but you know, he's, he's, it's, uh, it gets overwhelming for him when he's, when he's walking around and there's thousands of people that want to shake his hands and, and, you know, I bet, man, I bet. But I mean, that's, that's going to be you too. And a couple of years Oscar, for sure. I think I feel the same way. I think it's going to be like, you're going to see Mario and Paul Danner walking around and it's going to be like security detail, right? It's going to be people blogging. Oh man. That'd be awesome. I would love that.